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3rd Bass Forum => Prime Minister Pete Nice => Topic started by: kostyle on March 18, 2007, 08:58:56 PM

Title: How did everyone feel when
Post by: kostyle on March 18, 2007, 08:58:56 PM
Pete used the "N" word on the song, "Three Blind Mice"?  That was the first time I had ever heard a white emcee use the N word on wax.  He uses the word in a different context, and it wasn't like he said, "Yo, Ni##az is this or that..."  I don't know it kinda shocked me.  For those who haven't heard the song he says, "White Cracker man called the other man a Ni##a".  Everlast did the same on HOuse's second album where he says, "My dad said he's a bum kick the Ni##er out".  Should white folks be able to use this word in Hip Hop?  What makes a non African American emcee want to use this term?  HOw many of you heard Sham and The Proffesor's CD?  Those fools slang the N word around like it was nothing.  Where do you draw the line?  Oh and since I brought up Sham and the Prof. (who were these cats?), why in the hell did Sam Sever produce a track or two for them?   
Title: Re: How did everyone feel when
Post by: jorge kluney on March 19, 2007, 08:02:25 AM
Sham and The Professor.... I picked up that album - it had a couple of okay tracks (I think the album was called Split Personalities - and if I remember correctly there were photos taken at Cooney Island on the album booklet).

Regarding the 'n' word.... it really doesn't bother me personally.  I don't use it, but I don't lose sleep over when people do.
I guess I look at it this way:  if a person is saying it for reasons to label someone else, demean, or for some other intentional reason.... telling them "that's a bad word.... you shouldn't say it".  Isn't going to do anything because they are precisely using it for those reasons.  It seems like the word will only be given that much more power for those who wish to use it in this manner.  It will only become that much more offensive.
Isn't this what they want?  (they = someone who is using it for the above mentioned reasons)

If someone is using it for reasons other than these.... social commentary (which I think would include jokes), highlighting its historical significance.... then I don't know.  How do you ban a word?  Why punish someone who believes that they are using it for one of these more harmless reasons?  Not that you can't.... but you certainly don't foster any level of understanding in that person.  Think of when you were a kid, you are innocently playing around and do something that by social standards isn't accepted (which I'm certain has happened). And say your parents don't come up in an understanding manner and try explain why this shouldn't be done.... instead they humiliate you, become physical, make it out to seem as if you knew what you were doing and that you were doing it for intentional reasons.

I don't know how well these situations sit with any of you.... but I know many kids (in working with autistic children) who will now act that way to spite you.  It might not have meant anything to them before, but now they are emotionally invested.

In all honesty, I don't know what should be done.
Banning a word or getting all up in arms about it everytime it is uttered doesn't seem too productive to me (I could be wrong).
There was a time when people dealt with the crap that came their way.  It made them a person with thicker skin, maybe made them more understanding in the process (which is odd that the person getting belittled is the one who has to become more understanding.... but that's kind of how it works). 

You give a word too much unnecessary power when the reactions to it become so polarized.  We know it's a bad word.... and if a person is using it for those purposes to begin with does making it more of a bad word diminish the likelihood (sp) that someone is going to use it again for these exact same reasons?  No..... you just turned a .38 Special into a Desert Eagle.
Title: Re: How did everyone feel when
Post by: EastCoastHoney on March 19, 2007, 08:01:52 PM
Pete used the "N" word on the song, "Three Blind Mice"? That was the first time I had ever heard a white emcee use the N word on wax. He uses the word in a different context, and it wasn't like he said, "Yo, Ni##az is this or that..." I don't know it kinda shocked me. For those who haven't heard the song he says, "White Cracker man called the other man a Ni##a". Everlast did the same on HOuse's second album where he says, "My dad said he's a bum kick the Ni##er out". Should white folks be able to use this word in Hip Hop? What makes a non African American emcee want to use this term? HOw many of you heard Sham and The Proffesor's CD? Those fools slang the N word around like it was nothing. Where do you draw the line? Oh and since I brought up Sham and the Prof. (who were these cats?), why in the hell did Sam Sever produce a track or two for them?

Wow, Kostyle, great topic.  I have a lot to say about it.  First of all, I do not like the N-word.  It's is ignorant, offensive, derogatory, and degrading.  I don't use the word, and I don't like when others use it.   My personal opinion is that white people (and other non-black people) should not ever use the word.  I can't really think of a situation when it is appropriate for a white person to let the word n*gger come out of their mouths.  I don't like when black people use it either.  Now, obviously, I know that black people use the word in a different context...it is normally not used to offend or degrade.  Black people have sort of taken the word "n*gger", reclaimed it,  and now use the word "n*gga" as a term of endearment.  Like when one black guy sees one of his friends and he's like "Yo, wuz up my n*gga?"  He is not using the word in an offensive way.  It's almost like trying to turn a negative into a positive.  However, I still don't like the word at all.  I think it is overused, especially in hip hop and certain movies today.  I wish more black people would return to the day when it was "my brother" and "my sister",not  "my n*gga". 

The reason I feel so strongly about the N-word is because I understand the history of the word.  It is a loaded word that was used to keep an entire race of people belittled, degraded, dehumanized, and treated like shit.  Like Oprah has said, "n*gger" was the last word a black man heard when he was lynched in the south.  N*gger was used to show the utmost in disrespect and to constantly remind black people that they were second class citizens.  When anyone utters that word, they cannot deny the history of it or forget the real meaning behind it.  It was a word created especially to degrade only black people.  People call anybody an a$$hole or a d*ck, but n*gger is specifically directed towards black people. 

Now, in the example you gave when Pete Nice used the n-word in the song, he obviously was not using it to degrade or disrespect anyone.  He was trying to make a point in the song.  Same for Everlast.  I think that some white people who are "down with black culture" sometimes use the term in the same way a black person would.  They may have black friends and/or relatives who use the word and they feel it's okay for them to do the same.  I disagree.  I don't believe in "banning" words, but the N-word is a word that is overused and serves no real purpose other than to keep people angry and divided.  The bottom line is that black people need to stop using the word so frequently and white people need not ever use it.  It's unecessary and in many cases leads to violence.  That is never going to change simply because of the strong, powerful history of the word. 
Title: Re: How did everyone feel when
Post by: jorge kluney on March 20, 2007, 07:16:55 AM
The reason I feel so strongly about the N-word is because I understand the history of the word.  It is a loaded word that was used to keep an entire race of people belittled, degraded, dehumanized, and treated like shit.

Hi East,

Not to get into a debate about this.  Because I do agree with you.... I don't use the word.  But just because I don't feel as strongly doesn't mean I don't understand the history of it.
I'm just not for giving a word that much power.  When I was a kid my mom was picked on by alot of neighborhood kids because she was an alcoholic.  They would come up to me and make fun of her all the time.  You can imagine the words children could come up with.
Anyway.... it didn't pay to plead with these kids saying "don't use those words to insult my mom!!".  If I were to react that way imagine the field-day they would have then.  I did argue back at 1st, only to have the insults increase 10fold (just a guess, of course).  When I stopped reacting it took the power of the words away.
They had nothing to insult me with anymore.  Sure, they could have kept on.... but they would just be treading water.

Title: Re: How did everyone feel when
Post by: EastCoastHoney on March 20, 2007, 08:26:53 PM
Hey Jorge,

You may understand the history of the word, but you really don't "get it".  However, I don't expect you to.  You never will.  Anytime you can say that the "n-word" doesn't bother you personally and although you don't use it, you "don't  lose sleep when someone else uses it", that tells me that you really just don't get it.  But, often, people cannot truly relate to things that don't affect them personally.  And, I understand what you're saying about not giving a word that much power, but what I was trying to explain in my previous post is that the word is already that powerful.  It's not about giving it more power because it has already been established as one of the most powerful and hateful words in the English language.  History has established that, not you or I.  That's the way it is.  Peace. 
Title: Re: How did everyone feel when
Post by: jorge kluney on March 21, 2007, 07:49:27 AM
You may understand the history of the word, but you really don't "get it".  However, I don't expect you to.  You never will.  Anytime you can say that the "n-word" doesn't bother you personally and although you don't use it, you "don't  lose sleep when someone else uses it", that tells me that you really just don't get it.

Hi East,

Come on.  This isn't a fair representation of what I'm saying.  I have a different personal history than you, granted.  I deal with stuff like this differently.  I prefer to not react to words like this.  Why do you assume that it means I just "don't get it"?  You don't know what I get and what I don't get, please don't make the assumption that because my response isn't in line with yours that I must not get it.
How would you react if I were to claim "oh, you just don't get it", because you weren't as passionate about something as I was?  Hopefully you would think, "gee, that's pretty shortsighted of you, jorge.... you assume that my reactions are a reflection of my ability to get it just because I don't react as you do???"


But, often, people cannot truly relate to things that don't affect them personally.

uhhhh.... getting beat by white kids because I listened to hip hop and acted differently and getting beat by black kids for trying to hang out with them????  Oh yeah, no personal connection there.  East, maybe you should inquire before you make these kind of comments.

And, I understand what you're saying about not giving a word that much power, but what I was trying to explain in my previous post is that the word is already that powerful.

You might understand... but you clearly don't 'get it'  :lol:

Then we take the power away from it.... and we don't do that by becoming more sensative to the word.

That's the way it is.

East, I like ya..  But I have a feeling this will be a part 2 of what we had before.
Don't hate me when it's over  :wink:
Title: Re: How did everyone feel when
Post by: EastCoastHoney on March 21, 2007, 08:24:01 PM
Jorge,

This won't be part 2 of the last time because we can agree to disagree.  Nothing wrong with a little healthy debate.  About the N-word, I still feel that you really don't get it, but like I said, I don't expect you to.  Who we are and our life experiences shape our opinions and ideas about things.  For example, I can't pretend to know what it must be like to be a child of an alcoholic and to be teased relentlessly.  I can try to understand, sympathize, and even empathize with you, but to say that I truly relate and really "get it" is ridiculous since neither one of my parents were alcoholics.  If you really truly understood the historical significance and meaning of the N-word and all the negativity and hatred that it's use represents, then there is no way you would say that the use of that word doesn't bother you personally.  Sorry, Jorge, but you just don't get it.  And again, you probably never will.  This doesn't make you a bad person.  It is what it is.  And, this won't be the last time that you and I butt heads, but it's all good.  Take care.  Peace.     
Title: Re: How did everyone feel when
Post by: jorge kluney on March 22, 2007, 06:47:15 AM
About the N-word, I still feel that you really don't get it, but like I said, I don't expect you to.  Who we are and our life experiences shape our opinions and ideas about things.  For example, I can't pretend to know what it must be like to be a child of an alcoholic and to be teased relentlessly.

I can understand what you are saying.  This does make more sense.... kind of makes sense.

If you really truly understood the historical significance and meaning of the N-word and all the negativity and hatred that it's use represents, then there is no way you would say that the use of that word doesn't bother you personally.

East, before you said that :
You may understand the history of the word, but you really don't "get it". 

Before I understood the history but I didn't get.  Supposedly now I neither 'get it' nor understand the history.

East, my main point (I think) is that a person's reaction to something isn't a reflection of whether they get it or not (or understand it.... or not).
There is a guy that I work with (actually, he's security at the bank that I work at).  He's about 68 (my best guess) and black.  He and I have spoke about this.  When I talk about this I'm echoing his sentiments about this word.  With his age it would almost be inavoidable for him to not have experienced some ill-will directed towards him.  Are you going to tell me that because he doesn't "fuss" (his words) over the term that he doesn't 'get it' or doesn't understand the significance?

Sorry, Jorge, but you just don't get it.  And again, you probably never will.
Defining my abilities and stating what my future limitations are definitely going to be?  East, not only 'not fair'.... not nice.   :cry:

I have to (as you probably could assume) disagree with you.  I do get, I react differently, you don't (seemingly) understand why I don't react like you do.... therefore I get labeled as not getting it (and then the killer - probably never will).

This doesn't make you a bad person.

Really?!  SWEET!!!!!  I'm writing home to ma right now!!!!!!!!!!!!  (just kidding... she died back in 2003)


It is what it is.  And, this won't be the last time that you and I butt heads, but it's all good.  Take care.  Peace.

Aside from times when I'm made out to look like I have some genetic inability to understand a certain topic when I do..... I like ya.... I like ya alot. :mrgreen:
Title: Re: How did everyone feel when
Post by: EastCoastHoney on March 22, 2007, 12:59:09 PM
Hey Jorge,

Like I said, we can agree to disagree.  You have your opinions and I have mine.  I've had this same debate with other people, and 9 times out of 10, depending on the person's background and personal experiences, that determines how they feel about the N-word.  That is why your responses don't surprise me.  There are always a few exceptions..hence the gentleman you said you work with.  If he is an older black man and really feels how you say he feels, then trust me, he is an exception.  It would be interesting to speak to him, find out about his personal and life experiences and see where he is coming from.  His opinion is no less valid, I would just be curious to know what motivates his comments about the word.  With that being said,  if nobody had ever made a "fuss" about the word, then black people would probably still be called this derogatory term on a regular basis.  So, I'm glad that somebody made a "fuss".    Oh, and to clarify my statement about you not understanding and/or not getting it, I think you have a degree of understanding about the word, but I definitely don't think you "get it".  There is a difference.  Finally, as far as you "reacting differently" than I do as far as this topic is concerned, exactly when does the N-word ever touch your life or affect you in any way?  Of course you "react differently" than I do...that's like saying I react differently than you when someone teases me about my alcoholic mom.  But, see, my mom is not an alcoholic.  Get it?   
Title: Re: How did everyone feel when
Post by: jorge kluney on March 22, 2007, 06:11:50 PM
With that being said,  if nobody had ever made a "fuss" about the word, then black people would probably still be called this derogatory term on a regular basis.  So, I'm glad that somebody made a "fuss".

Hi East...
I really should have clarified.  Also, after thinking about it.... you're right.  I really wouldn't want opinions on this matter to be too polarized to either end - your end or my end on this matter.
I think it's good that there are people that do think it's important to voice a vocal opinion on this matter.  I don't want to take anything away from that.

There is a difference.  Finally, as far as you "reacting differently" than I do as far as this topic is concerned, exactly when does the N-word ever touch your life or affect you in any way?

When I was being called a n-lover for listening to hip hop and dressing different (while being beaten).... and while I was being embarrassed and called a disgrace to my race from black folks for trying to 'fit in' with them.


think you have a degree of understanding about the word, but I definitely don't think you "get it".

Nope... I do get it.

Of course you "react differently" than I do...that's like saying I react differently than you when someone teases me about my alcoholic mom.  But, see, my mom is not an alcoholic.  Get it? 

East, to understand what it's like, just imagine any other time that you were insulted because there was something that made you different from other people.  Are you telling me this never happened to you?
It doesn't take this grand leap of understanding to imagine what it must be like to have your mom mocked.

As a side,
Do you know what I think the hardest thing in the world to deal with is?
Being a kid in grade school (and later high school) and being mocked, insulted and the butt of every joke from their peers.
Nothing compares to that.  Not hearing the n-bomb dropped, not having your mom insulted, not having a shit job that gets you nowhere.
Being ostracized from your peers is much more damaging than any of that.  And going back to it day after day after day.
You've got no where to turn.  No one to confide in..... because you're the outcast. 

East.... I'm not trying to be rude, but I don't want to hear you tell me that I don't get it anymore. 
Shit man.... if you knew (and I HATE doing these things..... but I feel you've brought me to it) what I've been through and not jumped to your own conclusion maybe you'd 'get it'.

Quick history. 
My mom wasn't always an alcoholic.  When my sister and I were very young she didn't drink.  My mom had met a 2nd cousin of her's.... and befriended him.  He was new to the area.  My mom and dad invited him over for dinner one night.  A week after that (when my dad was at work) her 2nd cousin (Bob)  made an unexpected visit to our house.
He invited himself in.... made a pass at my mom.... she locked herself in the bathroom... he kicked in the door and raped her.
Threatened her that if she told anyone, she wouldn't see my sister or me ever again.  Then he proceeded to wait by the bus stop in the morning while she and I were waiting for the bus.
My mom turned to alcohol to deal with the stress.
I didn't know any of this until 12/27/2003.  4 days after my mom died of an anyeurism.  My dad informed me of the reason why she turned to alcohol while one evening I was 'losing my cool' about her death.... and blaming her for turning to alcohol.

Don't tell me I don't understand this.  I've dealt with much worse. 

Title: Re: How did everyone feel when
Post by: EastCoastHoney on March 22, 2007, 07:27:11 PM
Jorge,

I'm very sorry about all  your personal tragedies (I really am), but this post was started by Kostyle about the N-word being used in hip hop music by both white and black mc's.  When I originally responded to the post, I was responding to the initial questions posed by Kostyle and giving a little historical significance about the matter.  You have now made this very personal and are putting extremely private details on a very public forum.  If you notice in my original post (go back and re-read it), I never addressed anything you said personally or dissected any of your comments.  I was simply giving my opinion, which I am entitled to do!  You, for some reason, took issue with my post and started defending your position (which I never challenged in the first place).  This is exactly how the last "debate" started.  Remember??  Of course, if you take issue with something I've posted, I'm going to respond in kind! 

Now, I am not about to post extremely private, painful details about my life on this forum.  It's nobody's business!  And, I am going to end this by repeating something I posted earlier, and that is that our life experiences and what we go through shape who we are, how we feel, and how we react to things.  I can accept that you are who you are as long as you recognize the same about me.  And, if not, oh well, life goes on.  Have a good night.  Peace.   
Title: Re: How did everyone feel when
Post by: jorge kluney on March 22, 2007, 07:35:11 PM
Hi East,

My main point with that was just to show that we don't know each others pasts.
I just don't like being told that I don't get it, or that I don't understand.

It's nothing against you personally.... it's just my general reaction to that.

Like I said, I like you.

Think of a pet peeve (did I spell that correctly?) of yours that just gets to you.  That's kind of what hearing that is for me.

Take care.
Title: Re: How did everyone feel when
Post by: EastCoastHoney on March 22, 2007, 08:06:40 PM
Hey Jorge,

Are you an Aquarius by chance?  Most people that I seem to argue with like this are usually Aquarius.  My second guess would be Sagittarius??   :-D 
Title: Re: How did everyone feel when
Post by: jorge kluney on March 23, 2007, 07:30:13 AM
HAHAHA!!!!!

You're 2nd guess was spot on!
I was born 12/20/77....
SAGITTARIUS!!  Great guess on that.

While I may seem bone-headed at times.  I am quick to forgive,forget.... and more importantly -> admit that I was wrong.

I think it's that last reason why my wife and I may get along so well.
That and her legs  :wink:

She's done the 'War of the Roses' trick on me a couple of times.
Title: Re: How did everyone feel when
Post by: EastCoastHoney on March 23, 2007, 03:47:57 PM
You're 2nd guess was spot on!
I was born 12/20/77....
SAGITTARIUS!! Great guess on that.

She's done the 'War of the Roses' trick on me a couple of times.

Damn, I'm good!   :lol:  I have been studying astrology for years, and I can usually get the person's sign correct within the first or second guess (sometimes 3rd).  Usually, this is when I meet somebody face to face, but I usually get a "vibe" about a person, and I guess I've read enough of your posts to get a "vibe" about you. 

What is the "War of the Roses" trick?   
Title: Re: How did everyone feel when
Post by: jorge kluney on March 24, 2007, 03:37:08 PM
You're pretty good.!!!

The War of the Roses trick is when Kathleen Turner squeezed Mike Douglas's character between her legs when he tried fooling around with her.  In the movie Turner's character is an ex-gymnast.

My wife is pretty tall and an ex-soccer play (not pro)....
One time we were grapplin' around after a silly argument (fun grappling.... not 'I'LL KILL YOU grapplin').... I used my upper body and knew I was stronger.  Then she got her legs around my rib cage and practically cracked a rib of mine.  It hurt so COT damn bad.
So she got her way.  I never even expected the legs.
Title: Re: How did everyone feel when
Post by: EastCoastHoney on March 25, 2007, 01:16:39 PM
Nice!!!  Mad props to all the strong, kick-ass ladies out there.  I would probably never try that move with my boyfriend...he is too strong and would probably kick my a$$.   I know I can't get him physically, so I stick it to him verbally  :-D.
Title: Re: How did everyone feel when
Post by: jorge kluney on March 27, 2007, 07:20:32 AM
She's insanely strong with those (cool at times... not at other times).

One of my friends, after my rib injury, was making fun of me and said that it wouldn't hurt him.  That weekend she did it to him and he let out a yelp and was tapping out like a maniac.... just pounding his hand on the floor.
Title: Re: How did everyone feel when
Post by: petenicelover on October 21, 2009, 11:17:09 AM
wow qreat topic as a black female it doesnt bother me but i know it will bother other people because when we listen to 3rd bass we take it as they are talkinq riqht to us. I love pete nice with all my heart but i think he miqht have supprised a few fans but then aqain he's usinq freedom of speech so this is a debate alot of pros and cons.
Title: Re: How did everyone feel when
Post by: jorge kluney on October 08, 2015, 08:02:30 PM
Eastcoasthoney, go fuck yourself.... You ignorant bish